Question about some settings...

[global_carnage Profile]

Hello,

I'd just like to know your opinion about the following binding which happens to be used by a Finnish player I know. Is it allowed to have such values for those settings here? Or simply, what do you think about it? The sniper recoil effect is reduced to the very minimum with this method, as it's much easier to get the crosshair down, I noticed, but it tends to be kind of lame, especially when you get owned by it.

Code: Select all

bind mouse4 "+attack2;m_pitch 0.050;sensitivity 3.000;com_maxfps 71"

[Rainbow Profile]

Thanks to make it public, so more people can use it now!



For the rest:
Finnish player -> all such lamers

[Plastic_Jesus Profile]

For the rest:
Finnish player -> all such lamers

I don't think so. Anyway that isn't anti-recoil script so it should be allowed. You just change pitch and sens and thats it. I have used that before.

[fUnner Profile]

For the rest:
Finnish player -> all such lamers

I don't think so. Anyway that isn't anti-recoil script so it should be allowed. You just change pitch and sens and thats it. I have used that before.

and thats the problem we discuss always at this point.
since we have no pb at servers its hard to set a decent range for such values...

[global_carnage Profile]

Thanks to make it public, so more people can use it now!

Oh well, I personally think this kind of tweaking (or cheating, if we really want to put it that way) is no big secret. The fps value capped at 71 is well known to make the sniper recoil behave differently (one of the many bugs of the Q3 engine), m_pitch is generally put at a below-standard value by players to help them getting more headshots with SMGs (I personally get less when I use values like 0.0151 rather than the default one, but whatever pleases them...) but for snipers it reduces the work to get the crosshair down when put at an above-standard value. A higher mouse sensitivity further decreases the effort.
Now I know I just stated out the obvious, but it's just to prove the point that: people who know how these cvars behave probably already knew how to make a bind such as this one. People who don't, probably will have a hard time making a "dangerous" use of it.

For the rest:
Finnish player -> all such lamers

I don't think so. Anyway that isn't anti-recoil script so it should be allowed. You just change pitch and sens and thats it. I have used that before.

and thats the problem we discuss always at this point.
since we have no pb at servers its hard to set a decent range for such values...

Those cvars are easily accessible and they can be customized, but you should know that there's a limit for the minimum and maximum values of some of those (there's some standars which are followed, as far as I know). There could be a never-ending discussion about this, but I'll just say I think certain cvar values (such as the one that can be used by ATI graph card owners to remove/decrease the fog-effect on many maps, which I won't name here) cross the line between tweaking and cheating and they're definitely no better than a no-recoil script.
But the core of the problem is: if you can't check those variables' values, you won't be able to tell who's abusing them, so it will all be simple assumptions and no certainty.

And about Finnish players in general, I honestly have very mixed opinions.

[deep Profile]

yes, its not allowed.

[Scuba_Steve Profile]

yes, its not allowed.

And on what are you basing that? Cause with the explenation of Carnage i believe it's more tweaking than cheating.

[Rainbow Profile]

yes, its not allowed.

And on what are you basing that? Cause with the explenation of Carnage i believe it's more tweaking than cheating.

He is no member, no admin, so its only his opinion

[Scuba_Steve Profile]

yes, its not allowed.

And on what are you basing that? Cause with the explenation of Carnage i believe it's more tweaking than cheating.

He is no member, no admin, so its only his opinion

I wasn't pointing at something else, think his oppinion quite applies.

[global_carnage Profile]

I think it's tweaking, but tweaking that goes too far with some cvars' values. Personally, I've never been a fan of com_maxfps 71, even though I don't discourage people from using it, and m_pitch at 0.05 is just an exaggeration. I wonder if it would let him play on any PB-protected server with cvar values restrictions.

Also, having some multi-kills and fairly long killing sprees by just using sniper rifle in a quite small area, with medics rushing and all, would be very impressive with standard settings, but this bind seems to make it much easier to happen.

[Rainbow Profile]

Without such extreme settings its almost impossible to kill a nonlazy medic (on the settings we have atm for them). To point that against "Unfair!".

[eLemenT Profile]

Unfair too bad,

thats ET, the cvars, positive sides of them, cause u can tweak the view/gameplay like u want.
Or the negative side that they can be used as a script or an experianced user can create a good cfg that he has advantage over other players.

Also that isnt a cheat, also no-recoil isnt a cheat (if you see it as the definition 'cheat' - a programm which runs seperately but take place in the gameplay). But ye dunno if you know the programm etfakt, it is a cheat, strange hu? just a programm to make some bind, spawntimer etc. But ye its not aiming for you, just it is a extern programm which take place in the gameplay, cause u dont bind it on your own and let the programm do it. Same as an aimbot does for ur aim.

Lets compare sniper script vs no-recoil-sniperscript

No recoil: U have scripted it on your own or downloaded, nothing worse, not a reason to call it a 'cheat'.
But fact is if you use it u have to press one button and it simulates the action of sniping.

Sniperscript: its own made, with cvars which are allowed, same as anit-recoil script, but fact is u still have to push ur mouse down and still have to snipe on your own.

And exactly thats why imo its allowed, its like a normal cfg, others have good, others have bad cfgs.
And it doesnt 'do' the action for you like norecoil-script -> push ur mouse down, or other example, 180° turn script which does for you a 180 turn with one button.

Once again, imo allowed due my facts above, for others not. There will be always discussions and doubts what is allowed and whats not, point of view.

Btw found this topic

http://www.prime-squadron.com/modules.p ... ht=#105288

U can see Bowdown says pretty clear he doesnt allow that stuff in his server.
she had com_maxfps 43 (she says it reduce recoil dunno, imo it doesnt, only 71 does cos of the bug in the engine, also maxfps 43 is a setting like maxfps 76 or 125 if you have poor fps and need a good value to fix them).
hrhr, isnt really clever to allow some stuff there, and disallow it on other. (servers)
If its really not allowed it should affect whole community, all servers.

That was it from my part and how i see it.

[Rainbow Profile]

add. info.
In NQ 127 the +movedown and -movedown was removed. You cannot use any anti-recoil without external tools there anymore.

Thanks for to differ between no-recoil and sniper-script. Couldnt say it better, and i agree with you.
Also sniperscripts needs much of training to hit something with them.

-movedown usage (no recoil) is also closely related to +/-moveright/left (used in 180*-turn). I would see this much more unfair then sniperscripts.

[eLemenT Profile]

add. info.
In NQ 127 the +movedown and -movedown was removed. You cannot use any anti-recoil without external tools there anymore.

Thanks for to differ between no-recoil and sniper-script. Couldnt say it better, and i agree with you.
Also sniperscripts needs much of training to hit something with them.

-movedown usage (no recoil) is also closely related to +/-moveright/left (used in 180*-turn). I would see this much more unfair then sniperscripts.

Exactly.
Btw sexy avatar.

[global_carnage Profile]

[...] if you see it as the definition 'cheat' - a programm which runs seperately but take place in the gameplay [...]

Imo, that would be a pretty limited view of the word "cheat", as software hack using is a form of cheating, but then again, with a wider view it's pretty hard to tell what's cheating and what's actually not. This could generate an infinite discussion, so it's pointless to argue.

Anyway, I'd like to know what high admins (at least one of them) think about this.

[Rainbow Profile]

Also etmin.exe affect the game. + In etpro it dont work.

[choX- Profile]

if it comes to a definition of a cheat, I personally put it this way:
cheat - a program/script, internal or external, which modifies/interferes with the gameplay client-side in order to gain unfair advantage over other players.

so, IMHO, a normal, player-made anti-recoil script with tools available for anybody (the console, sprinkled with a bit of scripting knowledge), NOT messing with the game's intestants or anything - i don't consider it as a cheat, as anyone can make it, yet I find it pretteh laaame I don't use any scripts and I have no problems sniping, just by moving my mouse properly and pressing the fire button every now and then.. but who knows, maybe it's just because of the experience.

still, rules are rules, so are boundaries. better stick to them

[global_carnage Profile]

We're not talking about a "no-recoil" script, but a binding (let's call it "sniper script") which reduces the effort to put the crosshair down while sniping to the minimum possible (together with com_maxfps 71 which actually does reduce the recoil a bit).

"No-recoil" scripts are much more complex than this and work in a different way. I'd definitely classify them as cheats. Abusing cvars is not always ok: some give advantages which can destroy the playability of the game for others.