TJ Over Wall With Objective - Snatch

[Troyan Profile]

There are tons of differences, and Kowi is exactly right. They are not comparable
- In oasis axis have a second spawn and they are way behind
- In oasis you pass an objective, and you intend to do the final objective, axis don't have time to reach the dynamites in time.
- ...

Yes i know that. I wrote it in posts above.
But im not talking about that maps are same or obj are same. Ofc are different.
Im talking about only this jump.
Oasis :
- you can go cave to do obj or faster way by blowing up wall. U can jump over wall but thats tj for obj. So u have to blow up that wall to go that direction. (or huntrick with covert ops )
Snatch:
-you have fiew ways to run, 1 is near axis spawn so... better not. You can blow up wall downstairs if u want go right side of the map (ofc there are two open doors almost same direction as this wall, but in this doors you r more exposed for attacks from terrace). You can also jump over the wall but this is same as in oasis ( on both maps u have to blow up walls to go some directions or jump over it ) --- thats the similar situation i was talking about. Not that maps are same XD

I see diferents that on 1 map you jumping from roof to roof on other jump from roof to ground etc... I see also that on Oasis, this tj brings greater consequences for defending team than on Snatch map...
But essence of jump is almost identical

Oke. Im not defending this map anymore To be honest i dont really like this Snatch map anyway

Cheers

[DaRkMaN Profile]

I just dont understand how will you alow this jumping over wall?
Allies call artillery on exit of axis spawn and it is alowed becuse axis have one more way to go out of spawn.
And Allies will jump over wall with obj?
How the heck will you defend obj like that?
And who will remeber all this, this is alowed and this is not things on different maps?
Old member will connect and ban people becuse he didnt read this post, comn.
It is not about do you personally have problem with it, but is that normal.

Rulebook
Don't use trickjumps or doublejumps to complete a map objective, for example; jumping over the wall as an engineer to blow up the fuel dump to complete the map. Doublejumping over walls or obstacles without doing map objectives is allowed.

"Doublejumping over walls or obstacles without doing map objectives is allowed."

And we have to discuss about it?

[Sidor Profile Website]

+1 darky
Better when we disable doublejump in all maps and problem solved on snatch and oasis too

[Stick Profile]

Old member will connect and ban people becuse he didnt read this post, comn.
And we have to discuss about it?

All admins should be demoted so they cant ban unless they have seen this topic?

[Troyan Profile]

And we have to discuss about it?

My reaction was same in first post XD
Its just too obvious...

And fact is that on 1 map this is allowed on another its not. Same thing, same situation, same jump.

Yesterday evening, some players also typing that some1 cheat becouse of this jump... Dont remember who was that but think Sidor remember

Imo, is it tj\dj for obj or it isnt is unquestionable. Ofc it is. Question is rather, do we have to require our rule in this case or not...

P.S There is also another map where is a lot of controversions about dj for obj. Falcon millenium. Differents in that case is that there is no wall to blow when u runing with obj. But when u run on right side and u have to jump on that wooden terrace, this is also dj for obj imo

Omg i was suppose not to defending this anymore XD

[DaRkMaN Profile]

Omg i was suppose not to defending this anymore XD

Troyan, we have forum becuse of this situations
If you think you are still not shure abaout decision, talk.

Everybody is talking abaout their personal opinion, and thats ok, i have one too.
I mean, if we take Minas for example, i would use DJ with obj, climb to roof and walk.
But, Minas as Minas, whole map is preaty much DJ for obj, as long as we go door by door.

I dont have problem DJ with OBJ in general, i have problem that you say we can do it on this map and on others can't.
And i dont mean Oasis, there are other maps where you can DJ with OBJ.

If majority agrees, we can make rule that if nothing to blow or to build is in the path, DJ with OBJ is allowed.
Or something like that.

[Troyan Profile]

If majority agrees, we can make rule that if nothing to blow or to build is in the path, DJ with OBJ is allowed.
Or something like that.

That would solved problem. Coz in rule there is nothing about blowable things.

If it is ok becouse there is no blowable thing, that means on Adler i can move with obj on roof ? Right ?

There are some maps where useing tj for\with obj makes for defenders crazy situations.

On Falcon: if u run away with obj through hole on right side of map, axis have to defend obj at allias spawn XD

[egglaf]

If you would like to discuss this further, then take it to the member forum. It belongs there more than here.

[Pingster Profile]

"Doublejumping over walls or obstacles without doing map objectives is allowed."

The problem with this part is that doing this can prevent other team from defending the obj. So, in a way, you ARE doing obj.

Example: dj to shoot the defending team while engy blows up an obj undisturbed. Forget the name of it, but the map with 2 walls that engy blows so allies can take the flag - people have gone unpunished when they doublejump up and shoot axis without taking the flag, making it more difficult for axis to defend the two walls from being blown.

[davies Profile]

"Doublejumping over walls or obstacles without doing map objectives is allowed."

The problem with this part is that doing this can prevent other team from defending the obj. So, in a way, you ARE doing obj.

Example: dj to shoot the defending team while engy blows up an obj undisturbed. Forget the name of it, but the map with 2 walls that engy blows so allies can take the flag - people have gone unpunished when they doublejump up and shoot axis without taking the flag, making it more difficult for axis to defend the two walls from being blown.

In an indirect way every double jump may support objective. To allow doublejump, we have to draw a line somewhere.

[Pingster Profile]

In an indirect way every double jump may support objective. To allow doublejump, we have to draw a line somewhere.

Sure, but that line could easily be "if you cant get there without dj and without completing an objective first/without cvop's in enemy's pants"

[Troyan Profile]

To allow doublejump, we have to draw a line somewhere.

Sure. But imho doublejump should help player in movements (to make game a bit faster), not to avoid main assumptions of the map... especially when we are talking about completing objectives

[DMG_Kowi Profile]

Example: dj to shoot the defending team while engy blows up an obj undisturbed. Forget the name of it, but the map with 2 walls that engy blows so allies can take the flag - people have gone unpunished when they doublejump up and shoot axis without taking the flag, making it more difficult for axis to defend the two walls from being blown.

Special Delivery maybe? On Special Delivery, dj on those walls is not allowed.

[davies Profile]

In an indirect way every double jump may support objective. To allow doublejump, we have to draw a line somewhere.

Sure, but that line could easily be "if you cant get there without dj and without completing an objective first/without cvop's in enemy's pants"

That would be unrealistic. Doublejumping (and thus a little trickjumping) is part of NQ and, in my opinion, it makes gameplay less predictable and hence grands players more oppertunities to enjoy the map.
Also a defending team could use DJ/TJ to penetrate an attacking squad's plan to foster defensive play.

[Troyan Profile]

But rules should be clear and works on every map in same way imo.

Or - No tj\dj for\with obj over blowable obj, but that mean on snatch this is tj, becouse you are jumping over wall which engi should blow up first. I mean that hole in the wall downstairs.

or...

No tj\dj for\with obj to complete primary obj on map (like on Oasis) , but that mean dj on Special delivery is ok becouse u only grabing flag, nothing more. Almost same situation we have on Italy. Jumping from roofs or from stairs to catch Cp should be forbiden. Only way to catch CP should be ladder...

or...

No matter blowable\noblowable. When you are completing obj (blowing up smth or catching and escorting smth ), you cant runing from\to obj area useing tj over high walls etc...

Im really think that rule should be one for all maps

[deep Profile]

The second floor wall is not part of the blowable wall downstairs. So tj for obj is technically impossible there. Only way to tj for obj in Snatch is at the bridge area.

makes sense.

I think the tj rule was created mainly to prevent chaos with skipped objectives and spawnpoints that mess up the map structure.

[davies Profile]

But rules should be clear and works on every map in same way imo.

I wish it could but that wouldn't benefit gameplay. Every map is different and you have to pay attention to it's history and purpose.
Most important
NQ maps are designed to use DJ
ETPro maps are designed to only use single-jump

Your exemplifications concern different kind of maps. Special Delivery i.e. is an origninal ETPro map, hence blowing the side walls should be considered as one of the main objectives for the attacking force. Considering axis first spawn distance towards the flag compared to allies distance, using TJ will screw up the map, because it would grand allies too much time for the final objective.

In other words: it would truly f*ck up a maps objective.

[Troyan Profile]

The second floor wall is not part of the blowable wall downstairs. So tj for obj is technically impossible there.

But this is the same wall, only 1 meter below XD On oasis u dont jumping over wall, just 1 meter next to, on roof XD So is it really important 1 meter below or 1 meter on side ?? Imo important is sense this blowable things .... On most maps u can jump fiew meters farther then this blowable things. But sense is that you skip it...

[Smadje Profile]

The second floor wall is not part of the blowable wall downstairs. So tj for obj is technically impossible there.

But this is the same wall, only 1 meter below XD On oasis u dont jumping over wall, just 1 meter next to, on roof XD So is it really important 1 meter below or 1 meter on side ?? Imo important is sense this blowable things .... On most maps u can jump fiew meters farther then this blowable things. But sense is that you skip it...

In oasis there are no alternative ways to pass this wall (tunnel doesn't count, it is a different way). In snatch there are alternative ways, jumping over the wall is more of a shortcut made possible by doublejump. In oasis you skip an essential part of the map. It's a bad comparison and I don't know why you come up with it again..

[Troyan Profile]

Most important
NQ maps are designed to use DJ
ETPro maps are designed to only use single-jump

You are such a smart dude
That make sense, and this is best explanation till now
But still have mixed feelings about that... Maybe controversion will stay no matter witch way it will go...

[DaRkMaN Profile]

nab Davy

DaRkMaN wrote:
"Doublejumping over walls or obstacles without doing map objectives is allowed."

Just to say this is RULEBOOK

It all the same for me if we will allowed it or not. I am just saying that by allowing this it will only create new problems becuse there will be other maps and people will find new ways and then when you will kick them, he will call on this rule on this map.
It is much easier to say, no jumping over that wall with obj and thats it.
Davy you talk abaout gameplay and history i mean, it is not like NQ is from yesterday and now we have to watch that newbies whine about how they cant win map as allies, becuse there is very small number of them this days. Trying to "even" maps by bending rules is not the way. Some maps you win, some you lose. Learn to live with it

[xochi Profile]

I also follow darkman at this point. You can not put in Rulebook A and eventually do B. People will be confused by this way. Just pull ONE straight line and say Yes or No not a maybe here and maybe there, that only causes confusion for rest.

So for me still Not allowed.