A small discussion on mortar use

[rzeznik Profile]

Hi all,
I'd like to provoke here a small discussion about mortars, in particular I'd like to pick about shooting with mortar near spawn.
There have been many situations I've observed where players using mortars have balanced on the edge of spawnkilling (BaseRace, Industry) by shooting very close to their enemies' spawn. These cases have been usually justified by 'this is no sk, there are other exits/ways to evade mortar' etc. While technically it might seem to be correct, as ruled out by admins, it, in my humble opinion, causes a lot of imbalance and annoyance. Every other form of attack on spawn is less damaging and can be somehow prevented - say: artillery cannot be that frequent and is visually indicated, panzers can be evaded or grounded and panzer operator killed because he is usually not that far, similar argumentations goes to rifles, sniper cannot do substantial damage and/or can be killed. Problem with mortars is that they are almost always beyond the firing range and can shoot almost continuously, furthermore one well-placed shot can take half of the team down. I think that this weapon has not been well thought out and game would have been better without it, but we have to live with that. What I'd like to change is admins and players acceptance of mortars. What would you say to my proposal of strengthening the rules so that mortar must shoot at a 'sane' distance from spawn. For instance, on Goldrush mortar could shoot near center of bank courtyard but nowhere near the gates marking spawn exits, on Oasis - beyond the wall near first axis spawn and so on. Wouldn't it be better? I'd like to hear what you are thinking about this.

[Plastic_Jesus Profile]

I have thought it many times too. Its sometimes really annoying to die at spawn exit by mortar or by artillery. And sometimes when you go to another exit it will be under attack too. So there would be a limit that explosives/heavy weapons/artillery wont be allowed at spawn exits. In my opinion that is good that you took this up to discussion because it could be possible to have that kind of rule.

-*S

[wuju Profile]

I agree with u Rzeznik but id like to add somethink to discusion. Try to imagine

that on server will be such a rule, look at admins - imo its imposible to

contol that. There have to be about 2-3 admins on server to control it

especialy when its such precise rule.

Yaa i know i use mortar very often on goldrush but sometimes i play axis there

and its not so hard to leave spawn, there is about 4-6 seconds beetween mortar

missles and i think its enought. There are 3 addictional exits, sometimes

i dont understand why my mortar kills there so many ppl

Its rly not so hard to avoid it

Cya in PS1

[rzeznik Profile]

I agree with u Rzeznik but id like to add somethink to discusion.

Thanks

Try to imagine

that on server will be such a rule, look at admins - imo its imposible to

contol that. There have to be about 2-3 admins on server to control it

especialy when its such precise rule.

I understand your concerns, but let me say two things:
rule is not really precise, it rather appeals to common sense, and,
admins IMO will not have more to do than now. People will report such cases as usual. You could say on the same basis that 'no-TK on purpose' rule is impossible to control because every player would have to be supervised by admin, yet it works quite well in practice. The same case here.

Yaa i know i use mortar very often on goldrush but sometimes i play axis there

and its not so hard to leave spawn, there is about 4-6 seconds beetween mortar

missles and i think its enought. There are 3 addictional exits, sometimes

i dont understand why my mortar kills there so many ppl

Its rly not so hard to avoid it

I know that you do, sometimes I was bitten hard by your mortar. But I am not targeting you, or anyone else in particular. So far admins have seen no problem with this so it is hard to blame anyone. But things may change What I am really saying is that, while you are right that mortar can be avoided, it nevertheless does substantial damage and is simply imo unfair because the one who is shooting mortar cannot be easily killed. Take Goldrush - there is always rush at spawns, people are pushing, going frenzy, everyone is trying to get out of the spawn and here comes the rocket - bam - some escaped, some are left with 5 hp screaming for medic, some killed - whole team is damaged before having the chance to fight.

[rzeznik Profile]

I have thought it many times too. Its sometimes really annoying to die at spawn exit by mortar or by artillery. And sometimes when you go to another exit it will be under attack too. So there would be a limit that explosives/heavy weapons/artillery wont be allowed at spawn exits. In my opinion that is good that you took this up to discussion because it could be possible to have that kind of rule.

-*S

Great to hear that Saukko. In my opinion this change would make the game more fair, especially on some maps on which right now the mortar is abused - I can think of Goldrush and Minas Tirith, maybe Venice. Since you are PS member I will ask you: do you think that wuju concerns (expressed in his post), that it will be impossible to control this rule, are valid?

[Rainbow Profile]

A possible solution would be to decrease the power bar recharge time of the mortar.
Or to forbid field-ops to resupply a mortar user over a whole match.

[wuju Profile]

What I am really saying is that, while you are right that mortar can be avoided, it nevertheless does substantial damage and is simply imo unfair because the one who is shooting mortar cannot be easily killed

I cant agree with that im not easy target For example on goldrush sometimes i became objective for Axis team there are many ppl who know where are my spots, its rly not so hard to find and kill me Some axis players just take mortar and are hunting me, its quite funny

I have to say i understand all ppl who are angry cause of mortar kills cause i dont like to die in that way too

About u said its likely with TK, yap its rule too but there is other solution, admin can see intentional tk and kick, he have TD counter too, its much easier to watch imo.
U see there are problems with sk in direct spawn areas but it will be problem to make those spawn areas bigger. I think its almost imposible to learn ppl to not puting arty for example near exit of axis second spawn in Goldrush. There are too many pll playing in my opinion. See for me its easy cause i try to read forum but many ppl are not registered here, so how to show them new areas where killing is counted as SK/SC.

I know it would make gameplay more pleasure but im pesimist if it gona be realized. Think about rulebook it would grow like polish constitution


EDIT:

A possible solution would be to decrease the power bar recharge time of the mortar.
Or to forbid field-ops to resupply a mortar user over a whole match.

In Goldrush map its easy to shoot standing near ammo cabbinet. Its other solution for no resupling mortar. U need just to take mortar and switch class to field-op (taking clothed of teamate) then ur a soldier with ammo packs - dont need supply

[rzeznik Profile]

A possible solution would be to decrease the power bar recharge time of the mortar.
Or to forbid field-ops to resupply a mortar user over a whole match.

Ad1. If this is possible (mod/config?) then it might solve the most immediate problem. But still not prevent it
Ad2. I think this is impossible to achieve - usually there is more than one field-op in a team and they just throw ammo around them when leaving the spawn. Even if they did not resupply a mortar user directly, there is nothing that would prevent him from just going for ammopack.

Ad1 is nice, it would solve some most pressing concerns, but still some would remain

[rzeznik Profile]

Some axis players just take mortar and are hunting me, its quite funny

Not for all

U see there are problems with sk in direct spawn areas but it will be problem to make those spawn areas bigger. I think its almost imposible to learn ppl to not puting arty for example near exit of axis second spawn in Goldrush. There are too many pll playing in my opinion. See for me its easy cause i try to read forum but many ppl are not registered here, so how to show them new areas where killing is counted as SK/SC.

Yeah, I know, I am guilty myself. But arty imo is not that damaging. It rains chaotically, does not do that much splash damage, is visually indicated, cannot be invoked very often. But still, I agree, this can be quite bad.
And I also think that you need not educate people very much. Post a rule in the official rulebook and on battlefield other players will take care of the rest

I know it would make gameplay more pleasure but im pesimist if it gona be realized. Think about rulebook it would grow like polish constitution

I was afraid of that too but I started to think that it suffices to list the rule in a concise form like: no mortar near the spawn, and people/admins will take care of the rest (they can report, gib, warn, pm, whatever, right?)

[wuju Profile]

Some axis players just take mortar and are hunting me, its quite funny

Not for all

Ok next time on Goldrush ill be an Axis and ill show u how to do it with axis mortar or useing covert

For me power of mortar can be lowered i use it just on Goldrush so there are 15 other maps where i dont need it at all

Ill find sth new what will make ppl angry

[wardew Profile]

often spawn have 2 exit...
on 1 exit nade, riflenade, arty...
on other exit the damn mortar 1 cm out of the line of spawn...
but it's no sk....

http://www.prime-squadron.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=6605

[lazy-lion Profile]

I dont know what i so wrong?
Yes, its very annoying that you get killed by mortar..
But its not forbidden and why should it be forbidden?
Its also annoying when a rambomedic dont heal you and that is also not forbidden
Its not sk, so no problem in my eyes, and i think that you are just angry that you get killed many times?
Just go the other exit and problem solved.
And also what wuju already said.. The time between mortar shot is like 4-6 second.
Just wait some sec out of the hit area of mortar and then run through it...
This is annoying, but not something you need a rule for. ---> in my eyes.

[Invincible Profile]

@ lazy-lion
we know the fact that its not forbidden and "why" or "why not" is the whole discussion of this topic... If you are determened not to contribue in this discussion, or if you simply want to disagree, at least have the decensy to read the previous posts so that you know your points are not already made and/or are irrelevent... =)
And these kind of assaults are not to reccomend in the future either: "and i think that you are just angry that you get killed many times?"
He has spoken with clarity, calm and civility, which is more than I can say for you.


I was going to stay out of this discussion, even though it's interesting but I couldnt keep my opinions to myself this time =)

On many points I agree with you rzenik, the use of mortar is many times unfair, specially when it's shot only a short distant from the spawn exit. Those of you who say it's easy to dodge or whatever, yes it can be, but don't tell me it isnt just as easy to just dumbblinded run out of spawn and get struck by mortar. And maybe most of us can avoid them, but what of those that can't?


But when it comes to making a rule it is abit harder, first of all like wuju84 said (even though he should keep out and let the admins fend for themselves regarding their own busieness ;P) it will be a hard call to make out what is "proper" mortar ground. It will cause alot of turbolens and wild discussions between players if a general rule is amplied: about where is "really" mortar allowed and where it "should" be...etc...etc...

Second thing I'd like to point out is that a general rule of this sort is not to be commended because it could prove to be contra-productive. In some cases the mortar use of this sort is needed to give the team a short advantage and an extra edge (sooner or later people figure out wich exits to avoid and then the edge gained will reduce alot).

So it is all relative, its hard to amply and not always fair - as one might point out for the arguement of impying such rule.

I supose you could use another technique if you feel the teams are very unbalanced and that the enemy mortar is tipping the scale even more: pm the person with mortar and kindly explain what you think of the team balance and try asking him nicely to point that thing elsewhere to get a more fair and enjoyable game

[Timon Profile]

The most important thing is: use common sense. But I say this to both sides of barricade: mortar users and those who are against.

First of all, you bring up a techic of avoiding moratar missiles by figuring out the frequency of shots and finding a dash between them. I'm using it, but I'm sorry to say that it's not always effective. Noone says that a moratar player is obligated to shoot just as he has his energy bar filled enought. So the missiles can approach the spot irregularly. Besides I'd like to see someone trying to do this while being surrounded by 5 teammates and additionally being pushed. Good luck! But I'm almost sure the meat will fly.

On the other hand, as it was already pointed out, spawns ususally have more then one exit. So my request to players: If you see that one of the exits is totally blocked by enemy fire, use the other one! It's quite common view to see 10 people running out blindly out of spawn just to get smashed by mortar. I'm asking what for? Isn't it better to lose 10 sec more to leave with the other exit rather then die and wait for respawn?

Then, let's take care of mortar player. Honestly speeking I used moratar like 2-4 times in my whole ET history and that was because of lags. I'm not trying to disencourage people to use it, or what's worse insult them anyhow. No, no, no, it's not my point. What I want to ask is: is your spree so marvelous to cause 10 people on the server argue, provoke and insult each other? The game should be fun for both sides. People being mortar-splashed just after spawn are ususally frustrated. Mortar guy is equally happy? Dominating by pressing one mouse button? Sounds boring for me. You like it? I don't mind. But please consider that people fire this game after tiring day in school/work and want to relax. When you see people being annoyed, talk with them politely insted of shouting that you're not spawnkilling.

I totally support Invicible, who pointed out many important things about the case, like PMing the player himself or showed how moratar can be important for the result of the map.

My tip is: use cvops to get rid of moratar. I know it's hard to cross enemy lines but once you're there try to find his position and easily assassinate him. If you can't handle it, you can ask a more skilled player to do so. All in all Team Chat is not an unnecessary addition to the game, but a way to arrange some teamwork

If the spot, where moratar missiles hit, is near the spawn it's almost always a debatable case and will be. Noone can measure the distance exactly so as I said before use common sense! Introducing a precise rule would be hard both to even creat it and then follow it. So, shooting your mortar "1cm" before the spawnline will bring you no good. In the best case admin will probably ask you to change the target, in worse-you will cause massive SK. Why do you need that? For one multikill? Killing spree?

So guys who are for and against: you got some solutions and I'd like to see that future mortar cases will be solved on a way of polite discussion or PMs and not by insulting yealling. Just look at the whole thing from the opposite side, respecting that side's arguments.

Cheers!

Tim

[Ammz Profile]

It's called tactics and strategy. This is the meaning of war to gain advantages upon the other team! Why do you think there are allied and axis snipers in Minas Tirith in the beginning of the game? Because it makes sense:

Allies -> How do we kill axis when they are so far away, we must not let them close to the gate = Snipe them!
Axis -> How do we counter-act the sniping from allies? Artillery + Sniping!

This is how it works, so if you can't handle the mortar you can (as toms said) change class to covert and assassinate that darn soldier. If that is not possible, you can reach him by mortaring him .
If your team can't handle 1 mortar, you would have lost the game anyway since your team cannot think how to counteract the actions of your enemy.

I personally would rather now have this rule made since in addition to above arguments, would indeed put another burden on the admins and also the players since they need to learn another rule in an already full rulebook

[Evil Profile Website]

FIRST

rzeznik, avoid double posting would be beter to edit your post nexttime

@ontopic.

about the maps and mortar cases.

Goldrush: like we all hate people of allies shooting to 1 of the kind exit.
but you also have a clear view that there is more then 2 exit to get out the spawn.
you can split your way wich you can reach even a third outway (near mg nest)
hell walking true true...
but i dont see a point to make area's where WE or NOT be allow to shoot.
each server diferent oppions and rules is most speaking of the day coz at ps5 you handle some diferent then ps1.
and still some people have troubles with that and ask why there is allow and here NOT! (was just example
charge time of mortar i think there is no point to lower that for now.

another thing.
For example oasis as allies.
shooting to spawn is not allow and we all aware of that situation but.
some people also shoot at ammo/med cabines. witch is not allow eighter since (so ive hear and bow oppion) we might be able to spawn whenever its full in the other spawn (common very rare coz never saw it so far on ps1).

i can talk days or weeks about this.
but i see no point to change anything els arround server so far.
and ofc its not nice you got killed by mortar.

but let me give a hint.
walk to the exit see when mortar comes down and after that WALK...
people spawn and people ran quick out. and thats cause dead in as a return
just an avoid tip

have fun at servers and iam watching this topic coz i love to play mortar most time.
so i want to hear people's oppion ofcause

[wuju Profile]

Agree all of u guys

If u ask is it pleasure to see spree or multikills with mortar, for me one map when i try to have alied mortar is just goldrush, on other maps rest of ppl use it, than sometimes they kill me, like Evil said its part of taktic too, and yes i like when ppl are trying to come to kill me when i got 25 kills in row

[Keeks Profile]

Tbh I think that mortar is effective thing to prove Darwins theory - that only those strong and clever will survive. If there is mortar fire at one of spawn exits, just leave by some other exit, dont charge in headlessly. When I see bunch of players running to mortar spot several times, not getting any progress in deduction that if they go that way they'll die, its them who ruins their game, not the mortar.

I'm not a real mortar user, even that I take it time by time, I'm more like mortar hunter, its always nice challenge to seek and destroy enemy mortar, getting behind enemy lines. And challenge with fun is what all is about

What I hate about mortarts is when mortar user keep spamming enemy spawn exit instead of doing his job - clearing campers (ie at Minas Tirith the mortar can be the difference between succeeding and failing the attack). The game should be about objective and teamwork, not about getting most frags.


and a little ot (well...most of my post is ot, but nevermind), as spawnkilling was mentioned too: What do you think about mines right next to spawn exit at Oasis flag spawn? Imo they shouldn't be allowed, as they could do spawnkills (and they are pretty dumb as they ofted do massive tk/tb when enemy is trying to rush in with very bad timing)

[Evil Profile Website]

I'm not a real mortar user, even that I take it time by time, I'm more like mortar hunter, its always nice challenge to seek and destroy enemy mortar, getting behind enemy lines. And challenge with fun is what all is about

oh no spot another enemy to destory our loveley mortar fan's

Ontopic: well cant add more then all has been saying here

[rzeznik Profile]

Hi all, thanks for your posts, I have just returned home from a long trip so I'll try to present my opinion in response to what you've written. Also I will try to avoid doubleposting as pointed out by Evil, sorry for that - I have gained this habit from newsgroups, I'll try to avoid it.

I was going to stay out of this discussion, even though it's interesting but I couldnt keep my opinions to myself this time =)

Thanks for sharing your mind

On many points I agree with you rzenik, the use of mortar is many times unfair, specially when it's shot only a short distant from the spawn exit. Those of you who say it's easy to dodge or whatever, yes it can be, but don't tell me it isnt just as easy to just dumbblinded run out of spawn and get struck by mortar. And maybe most of us can avoid them, but what of those that can't?

Furthermore I think that avoidance is better said than done, especially when you play in 18 vs 18 set. I feel that it is valid argument for small teams, but it is much harder to achieve in larger teams. Sometimes you are just pushed out of spawn by people staying behind, more often than not spawn exits are so crowded that you are stopped or blocked for a short while and as a result you take splash or direct damage. I fully agree here with the opinion presented by Timon in his post.

But when it comes to making a rule it is abit harder, first of all like wuju84 said (even though he should keep out and let the admins fend for themselves regarding their own busieness ;P) it will be a hard call to make out what is "proper" mortar ground. It will cause alot of turbolens and wild discussions between players if a general rule is amplied: about where is "really" mortar allowed and where it "should" be...etc...etc...

Second thing I'd like to point out is that a general rule of this sort is not to be commended because it could prove to be contra-productive. In some cases the mortar use of this sort is needed to give the team a short advantage and an extra edge (sooner or later people figure out wich exits to avoid and then the edge gained will reduce alot).

So it is all relative, its hard to amply and not always fair - as one might point out for the arguement of impying such rule.

I supose you could use another technique if you feel the teams are very unbalanced and that the enemy mortar is tipping the scale even more: pm the person with mortar and kindly explain what you think of the team balance and try asking him nicely to point that thing elsewhere to get a more fair and enjoyable game

I personally believe that it will suffice if admins just reacted when they see that people are being killed near spawn too often or/and complain. From what I see it could be the answer to all doubts you presented. I am not sure whether you agree. The problem with ordinary player reaction is that it is not 'legitimized' and hardly noticed and answered by mortar user, let alone respected. And I can understand it - people are generally more obedient when, let's say, policeman orders them to stop smoking somewhere where they should not, than when they hear it from passer-by. So maybe the term 'rule' is too strict, maybe we should merely simply seek admins help in such cases. On the other hand, having a rule would eliminate case where, I will quote Timon again, really interesting post,

When you see people being annoyed, talk with them politely insted of shouting that you're not spawnkilling. Wink

Ammz wrote:

It's called tactics and strategy. This is the meaning of war to gain advantages upon the other team!

Perhaps you are taking this war analogy too far We are not partaking the real war here, it is just a game, and as such can be made whatever we want it to be. But, just to stay on the same page with you - even real wars are regulated by conventions, like not using anti-personnel land mines or killing war captives - even though you could argue that land mines are huge advantage on a real battlefield.

Evil:

have fun at servers and iam watching this topic coz i love to play mortar most time.

sure, the idea here is not to ban mortars or mortar players but as someone somewhere said: there are other interesting places to target than spawn.

[Invincible Profile]

Furthermore I think that avoidance is better said than done, especially when you play in 18 vs 18 set. I feel that it is valid argument for small teams, but it is much harder to achieve in larger teams. Sometimes you are just pushed out of spawn by people staying behind, more often than not spawn exits are so crowded that you are stopped or blocked for a short while and as a result you take splash or direct damage. I fully agree here with the opinion presented by Timon in his post.

[...]

I personally believe that it will suffice if admins just reacted when they see that people are being killed near spawn too often or/and complain. From what I see it could be the answer to all doubts you presented. I am not sure whether you agree. The problem with ordinary player reaction is that it is not 'legitimized' and hardly noticed and answered by mortar user, let alone respected. And I can understand it - people are generally more obedient when, let's say, policeman orders them to stop smoking somewhere where they should not, than when they hear it from passer-by. So maybe the term 'rule' is too strict, maybe we should merely simply seek admins help in such cases.

This question is abit more delicate and have more depths than the weight of your arguements alone Im afraid.
In your example for instans (18vs18) it might be a easy call, on the other hand in might as well be a hard call if the team that is using the mortar in this way are the weaker of the two.
And if we go on you will see where this end leads: if its 9vs9 and unbalnced team, what then? if there 5vs6 or 6vs6 is it ok then to mortar in these spots? whats the limit 10 players at each team? or is that still too crowded? and even if you set a specific number of players, what of those times the teams are unbalanced by default? The question is, and will always be relative to the ruling circumstanses!

So a rule, even a guideline, to follow is hard to set up, not only will players argue over this, but I am afraid confusion will spread amongst the PS member-"staff" aswell. =/

I see your concerns about taking up the discussion with ordinary players yourself. To point out something that you see as a wrong without the authority to demand obiedience is not a easy way. But it is the right way in my opinion! Maybe you should start with your own team mates when it happens, and sure sometimes some one will inevitably take you for a idiot and wear all the pride in the world for what his doing and be certain of what he is doing is not wrong...but those times you should turn to admins ofc
In the PS servers we all do our share to contribue to maintain fair play, fun and good relations amongst our players, but we try to do it by gaining respect and understanding of the rules and the game itself, not by forcing rules upon you all! This is the soul reason why this community works, why players are gaining lvls and get invited to join us. A few people trive to get the PS tag for the authority and "powerful" commands, but most do it out of respect and loyalty to what they might consider as something close to a role-model (at least that's the way I hope it is .

The only exception where we do force rules upon everyone is regarding cheats (and sometimes on too thick-headed people who have no ability to comprehend).
Sure we all have our share or bad temper and bad days etc, but we still try... =)

So taking your time and trying to reach out to other players by making them understand is the most honerable way. We do not wish to have a "police state". But of course it would be easier with admins help, unfortunetly we can't act single handed and express different opinions causing diversity.
You will have to wait for the ones at the top of the hierarchy to answer ^^
Perhaps serverowners: Sebbel or bowdown could respond here? perhaps they could set out guidelines for players and members to follow...
But on the other hand, as I said, it is a versatile question when it comes to applying it. It might aswell be effortless or a plain no because of the complexity =/

After all, having a rule or a guideline is useless unless it is widely understood - and this one in particular might need expert knowledge of every on-going game to make out what is what, making us more like judges in case to case (which is very time consuming and leaves great room for errors) =/

[Audio Profile]

There are no 'small discussion's on Mortar use

I'll say in short : be considerate on where you shoot it; dont be an ass by spamming doors just for kills. Aim for campers instead.

[deep Profile]

if u want ban mortars from spawn exits then what about other hw's (panzer, mg)? imo having a rule just for a weapon is too much. and having an unwritten rule is also bad, because many ppl just want to play for kills- u cant blame them or ask them to stop changing their priorities in this game.

my advice: if its too hard/unacceptable, then get used to it.

[rzeznik Profile]

This question is abit more delicate and have more depths than the weight of your arguements alone Im afraid.
In your example for instans (18vs18) it might be a easy call, on the other hand in might as well be a hard call if the team that is using the mortar in this way are the weaker of the two.
And if we go on you will see where this end leads: if its 9vs9 and unbalnced team, what then? if there 5vs6 or 6vs6 is it ok then to mortar in these spots? whats the limit 10 players at each team? or is that still too crowded? and even if you set a specific number of players, what of those times the teams are unbalanced by default? The question is, and will always be relative to the ruling circumstanses!

Right, and also it would depend on map itself. It is very easy to avoid mortar on open maps, like BaseRace, at the same time (and team ) it is harder on GoldRush or Venice. Thus it has never been my intention to regulate mortar use based on teams or maps, it is next to impossible. I just gave counter-arguments to people saying that avoidance is the key. So 'the rule' would have to be in effect no matter what map is being played and with no regard to relative strength of teams.

So a rule, even a guideline, to follow is hard to set up, not only will players argue over this, but I am afraid confusion will spread amongst the PS member-"staff" aswell. =/

I see your concerns about taking up the discussion with ordinary players yourself. To point out something that you see as a wrong without the authority to demand obiedience is not a easy way. But it is the right way in my opinion! Maybe you should start with your own team mates when it happens, and sure sometimes some one will inevitably take you for a idiot and wear all the pride in the world for what his doing and be certain of what he is doing is not wrong...but those times you should turn to admins ofc

... cut ...

After all, having a rule or a guideline is useless unless it is widely understood - and this one in particular might need expert knowledge of every on-going game to make out what is what, making us more like judges in case to case (which is very time consuming and leaves great room for errors) =/

I understand. But there remains at least one matter to resolve - while your proposed solution is certainly the good way - it has yet to be determined whether other players think the same. If people itself start regulating mortar use, then it will be the sheer common sense applied, and I see now that it might be better than having official decree But the question is whether majority agrees that this kind of mitigation is worth taking.

Audio:

There are no 'small discussion's on Mortar use

I'll say in short : be considerate on where you shoot it; dont be an ass by spamming doors just for kills. Aim for campers instead.

In other words: aim at yourself
What you wrote might be considered the essence of this topic, yet how well this call would work in practice? I believe that minimal help from admins and other players is necessary. Now the question remains whether people feel this is right to bring this matter up during gameplay.

EDIT:
Diamond

if u want ban mortars from spawn exits then what about other hw's (panzer, mg)? imo having a rule just for a weapon is too much. and having an unwritten rule is also bad, because many ppl just want to play for kills- u cant blame them or ask them to stop changing their priorities in this game.

my advice: if its too hard/unacceptable, then get used to it. Smile

I am not sure about other weapons. From my observations posted in the first post I see that other weapons are not that damaging, and also their usage in this way is not that common. But of course I will not argue if someone thinks otherwise.

I believe this IS unacceptable and I also believe that getting used to all things that make you angry is not the right way to go through the life, sometimes you need to stand up

People can play for kills and I am fine with them doing so, but I find it hard to let them play as they wish and, at he same time, depriving others of this pleasure. The things being discussed in this thread, I hope, are not mutually exclusive. You still have an option of doing lot of kills with mortar, even if you cannot shoot near the spawn - there are other things where people gather - e.g. near map objectives.