DISCUSSION: Trickplant or not

by **St-Shadow** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 15:59

Hello,

Since I was told to go on forums and start asking question here, here it comes.

To describe the situation even better here you can see the screenshot:

Question: Is this situation considered trickplant?

Answer: I believe YES. It gives disadvantage for axis to disarm it AND how the name of a rulebreak says it is a TRICK PLANT. Not on a barrier, on the stairs.

Would like to see this topic alive, by players and members included.

Thank you for your answers.

Best,

by **Death** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 16:03

Well a few months or so ago i also warned about it being a trickplant and imo it is, however i was told by an higher member/admin (dont remember who) That it was allowed.

Since then i didnt warn about it anymore and i let it be.

However if you ask me it is trickplanting.

by **Daghel** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 16:08

As long as engie don't use trickjump to plant dyna, or it's not a bugged place is allowed. Its same like planting at the top of CP. Engie from opposite team have to waste precious 2 more seconds to get there and defuse it, but that's the point. And at so crowded server at PS#1 is usually hard enough to plant anything.

Death wrote:However if you ask me it is trickplanting.

No, it's not. Axis can reach the stairs without using any tj, even without dj.
Trickplanting is for example at oasis when allies are doing 'human tower' to destroy anti-tank guns from other side. Then axis engie can't defuse dynamite in normal way.

by **DMG_Kowi** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 16:35

I also hate when people plant dyna there, but yes, axis can get there normally.

There is quite similar situation on Arfield Assault. On first tank barrier (in the city) you can plant dyna on the top of the building next to the barrier. To be more precise, you have to plant dyna really at the very edge of the roof. This IS a little bit unfair, because you have to do a huge round to get there.

by **Leo_The_God** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 16:41

allowed ofc :O
and btw axis engys can stay downstair and jump for defuses dyna, cose dyna is really planted only on the top of the place, and engy can disable dyna only with jumping by downstair.
Run on stair isn't so essential

by **Ajit** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 17:43

by **icefrost** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 18:47

Ajit wrote:no

+1

by **wuju** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 23:52

Like others above ill say its alowed - u can defuse it in easy way.

I understand trickplant like using not normal way to plant dyna,
but there are other situations we can discuss about.

U can plant dyna near bareer, but before tank is close to it, than u repair tank,
it moves and dyna go under tank. Its imposible to defuse if u will do it precise.

that kind of trickplanting is imo not alowed but of course it is other situation

by **Ajit** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 0:58

wuju wrote:U can plant dyna near bareer, but before tank is close to it, than u repair tank, it moves and dyna go under tank. Its imposible to defuse if u will do it precise.
that kind of trickplanting is imo not alowed but of course it is other situation

I can't get why it should not be allowed in your eyes. It's just a typical tactic and players also use that in etpro. It's not any bug or stuff.

by **deep** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:18

Ajit wrote:
wuju wrote:U can plant dyna near bareer, but before tank is close to it, than u repair tank, it moves and dyna go under tank. Its imposible to defuse if u will do it precise.
that kind of trickplanting is imo not alowed but of course it is other situation

I can't get why it should not be allowed in your eyes. It's just a typical tactic and players also use that in etpro. It's not any bug or stuff.

In any case it's a bug, either a game bug or a map bug. And yeh even goldrush has bugs in it.

by **fibigod** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:36

It's not a trickplant i believe, because it's accessible for the axis peeps.

by **Ajit** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:44

Diamond wrote:
Ajit wrote:
wuju wrote:U can plant dyna near bareer, but before tank is close to it, than u repair tank, it moves and dyna go under tank. Its imposible to defuse if u will do it precise.
that kind of trickplanting is imo not alowed but of course it is other situation

I can't get why it should not be allowed in your eyes. It's just a typical tactic and players also use that in etpro. It's not any bug or stuff.

In any case it's a bug, either a game bug or a map bug. And yeh even goldrush has bugs in it.

So, basically you're saying that it's a bug when tank is moving.

by **deep** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:49

No I'm saying that the possibility of setting a dyna under a tank is a bug. You think game developers made it on purpose?

...they just didn't think of it imo.

by **DMG_Kowi** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:25

Actually it's not planting dyna under tank, but making tank move and stay over dyna. However I think it would be more reasonable if tank just pushes dyna (like it pushes bodies sometimes). But this is how it has been programmed, so this is what engine creators decided and I think it's not a bug.

Even if dyna is under the tank, axis can still keep tank broken, rebuild the barrier quickly and everything comes back to normal, since allies for 99% cannot do the same trick again.

by **Ajit** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:28

Diamond wrote:No I'm saying that the possibility of setting a dyna under a tank is a bug. You think game developers made it on purpose? ...they just didn't think of it imo.

so also blocking airstrikes with tank is a bug

by **Sebbel** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:11

lol ajit

+1 for daghs reply

by **Death** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:13

Ok i think i'm going to redo my statement cause when you talk about f.e. moving the tank over a dyna it's also unfair.

Saying it was Trickplant was indeed wrong i more ment i didnt think it's fair cause it isnt the way the designers ment for the barrier to be broken like that.

Just like they didnt mean that the tank should be able to move over dyna to destroy barrier...
It isn't for nothing that they installed a defence that you cannot plant a dyna near own tank

So i guess some people are to clever for this game

imo it should be played "normal" but it is indeed not forbidden and also indeed no trickplanting.

by **deep** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:29

Ajit wrote:
Diamond wrote:No I'm saying that the possibility of setting a dyna under a tank is a bug. You think game developers made it on purpose? ...they just didn't think of it imo.

so also blocking airstrikes with tank is a bug

No, I think you should go search the definition for the word 'bug' in video games.

by **DMG_Kowi** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 13:48

As Death said, designers haven't meant dyna to be planted like this. But since dyna has some specified radius of explosion it will always happen.
But on the other hand, notice that interaction (planting/defusing) with dyna demands only being in some certain distance from dyna and doesn't consider obstacles. And that fact lets defenders defuse dyna in not very realistic way, exmaples:
- streets of italy: market gate, axis can defuse dyna from the other side of gate
- caen: dyna on side entrane gate, same shit
- bastille: main entrance, allied engies can defuse dyna from that tunnel below, what is ridicolous, but possible and pisses me off

But coming back to main topic. On goldrush 1st barrier it is also unfair that allied dyna doesn't damage tank in any way when it's ticking under it.

There is also one topic I'd like to discuss. Recently, it often happens that defending engineers plant dynas around things they defend. There is nothing 'against the rules' but personally it pisses me of and I consider it unfair and lame for some reasons:
- since friendly dynas do not harm friendly objectives (gates etc.), they can be planted without any consequences
- attacking engie may be misleaded (think that dyna is already planted at barrier/gate/cp while it's defending team's dyna and won't do anything)
- on NQ recharge is very fast so defending engies can plat quite a lot of dynas
- when I'm on defending team, it pisses me off because I can get accidentaly team-killed by some *beep* dyna, while I'm fightning attackers near obj

But of course, formally, there are no rules against that, so on 99% nothing gonna be done about that.

by **Death** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 13:57

@kowi:

First part... nothing unrealistic about it... if you plant it far enough away from the "gate" or smth they cant defuse it...

Irl you can also get your hand trough a gate, can't you? so nothing weird about that.

2nd part... it's just the use of dynamite as a weapon, care

However if there is too much tk, like what happened sometimes on Parisbastille @ pillars then i do warn for it.

But it's the engy's their own responsibility, if they make too much tks with dynas they can be kicked or banned. (depending on what admin/member is online)

by **DMG_Kowi** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 14:11

Heh, that's why I always plant dyna in some distance from gate when I'm an attacker.
Yes, but is it possible to stick hands/fingers through metal frame like the one on bastille? I don't think so.

by **Death** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 14:15

only the tool has to go trough it

Maybe its a very tiny wirecutter...

by **Sebbel** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 14:22

lets go discussing about realism in ET

by **deep** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 14:27

DMG_Kowi wrote:As Death said, designers haven't meant dyna to be planted like this. But since dyna has some specified radius of explosion it will always happen.

It's not the radius, it's a map bug like I said. There's a invisible trigger box around the destroyable object. The dynamite has to be planted inside that box. And in the case of goldrush that box is so big that you can plant further away from the obstacle.

by **egglaf** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 14:29

Diamond wrote:
DMG_Kowi wrote:As Death said, designers haven't meant dyna to be planted like this. But since dyna has some specified radius of explosion it will always happen.

It's not the radius, it's a map bug like I said. There's a invisible trigger box around the destroyable object. The dynamite has to be planted inside that box. And in the case of goldrush that box is so big that you can plant further away from the obstacle.

If you look at it that way, it is just a design consideration of the map maker.

DISCUSSION: Trickplant or not

DISCUSSION: Trickplant or not

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