Our current server-situation.

[pompidom_23 Profile]

Hey guys

I wanna talk about what's happening on our server. Our server is getting popular as the name 'landwarserver' or 'botserver'. People come to our server to play botwar. Is this really how it needs to end? We just have had our 10 years anniversary, don't you guys think we need to do something about that? Not so long time ago we had more than 5servers, all pretty filled, PS1 was the place where you wanted to connect and there popped up a screen saying "sorry server is full, please try to connect later". OK I understand it's 2016 now and there are other fun games to play, but how difficult can it be to fill atleast 1 server?
For the first time in 5-6 years I did connect to another server... I felt bad about it and it was like cheating on PS. But why can these servers be filled with people on our server not? Well I don't know... But I do know we need to change things.

First of all, we are not a botserver. We need to get rid of our status of the 'botwarserver' (playing 20bots vs 3humans). We don't need people like Dr Zoidberg, who only comes to our server for playing botwar.( Zoidberg I like you very much and hope you will also join our server when its not botwar). So my suggestion is simple and DELETE, I repeat DELETE the 'landwara''botwara'landwarx'landwara of whatever command. Lets do it just basic and start with 5v5 bots, 7v7 bots or 10v10 bots and let people join, in begin they can play vs bots but people will connect and these bots will be gone. Lets do it oldskool like its supposed to be.

Second, we as PSmembers need to be more online. We have some members who are much online but guys contact your old PSmembers or PSregulars and send there ass to 178.63.72.111:27960. Search in you TS, xfire, facebook whatever and contact your PSfriends and get them on server.

Third, when I joined these other servers I saw a lot, but really a lot ex-PSregulars. Well when our server is getting more filled these guys maybe 1 day will connect and think 'ow PS is still around, think I will stay here for a while'.

Well, I realized that these things maybe aren't very usefull answers to our problem, but I do know we absolutely need to get rid of this botwar-situation, I think that will already help a lot. And I repeat, just DELETE that command, not only for members, just delete it...

Also I did post this in the PS1 discussion and not on memberforum because I want to know everybody's opinion about this.

Guys it's not difficult, get your ass on server and lets have a nice last time on Prime-Squadron...

[BigOgr Profile]

Yup. I agree with every word. Let's try to join more often, even to join Ninjadeer's team . And I also think we should get rid of botwars.

[SpyCow Profile]

Yup. I agree with (almost) every word. Let's try to join more often, even to join Cow's team . And I also think we should get rid of botwars.

+1

[Ninjadeer]

We need to get rid of our status of the 'botwarserver' (playing 20bots vs 3humans).

The thing is 1o2 isn't very cool either, no matter if there are few bots in both teams so it looks like 5o5 or something. The Omnibot isn't too sophisticated system and it may even cause situations like 1o4 humans with few bots in both teams, this is something we really cannot control.
The botwar command is there for those times when you are waiting for enough people to connect to form a proper teams with 4o4 or so. As some of you don't like to play with bots at all, some of our players don't like to play with teams with only few human players.
Taking something the players enjoy away isn't the solution. The only way to get rid of botwar is to connect on server and make sure there are enough players to form proper teams with 4 or more players in each.

And by the way: xfire is dead

[pompidom_23 Profile]

Sorry Ninja I cannot agree with that. These people who like playing botwar, only connect to our server to play botwar. They don't care about getting server full and they don't care about playing humans vs humans. We are the only server who have this botwar shit and people know that.
Once it is 20bots vs 10 humans, next map we do !kickbots and immediately 3,4, 5 people disconnect and all the shit start again...

Taking something the players enjoy away isn't the solution

Taking something away what players enjoy??? This is exactly my point, we are becoming known as a botwarserver. We really need to get rid of that status.

Really our server is getting killed by these botwars....

The Omnibot isn't too sophisticated system and it may even cause situations like 1o4 humans with few bots in both teams, this is something we really cannot control.

When I was on an other server last night, there where always 15v15 bots. There were players joining into the game, on some moment there was 7humans(8bots) in axis and 8humans(7bots) in allies. I joined allies and after 1 minute it said 'allies has to much players' and I was putted into axis-side automatically. It's something like our !teams command but than automatically.

Just put 7v7 bots on each team delete this !botwarcommand and let the players come. It works on other servers, why wouldn't it work here?

[Ossy Profile]

As this is a dying game, I have a suggestion that may be can help with ur situation..

I am in a clan (I don't gonna say which on open forum) that has plenty of people playing on the server..

When I play(ed) on ur server I regonize sometimes the bots are sometime pretty hard to kill, we have the bots set on easier level so the so called noobs can get a easy kill..

Maybe that can attract people..

Just a little suggestion

The best luck for the server and I hope it becomes fuller in the future.

[pompidom_23 Profile]

When I play(ed) on ur server I regonize sometimes the bots are sometime pretty hard to kill, we have the bots set on easier level so the so called noobs can get a easy kill..

Indeed! Forget to mention this in my post Thanks for the reminder. Bots are indeed to hard for some players so leveling them down would also help a lot. + the delete !botwarcommand

[Troyan Profile]

In my opinion...... no... every1 know my opinion since we had this discussion not so long ago on MF when we had settings with 20 bots normaly. We changed it to 10 but i still think its too much.
But first things first.
There is no great rediscover that doing botwars is one way ticket. There is no way to keep server alive when bots around.

Third, when I joined these other servers I saw a lot, but really a lot ex-PSregulars

Sure. 99,9% of ppl who decided to instal this game and connect to some server, just want to play with other humans. Thats the point of this game. If they want to play VS computer then they looking for single player games i guess

But why can these servers be filled with people on our server not?

What i notice, they've got many active admins... and we dont. Sad but true...
1. Ppl like to play with crew they know, with bunch of friends. Thats normal.
2. We got mostly 2-4 active |PS| on server which not giving normal gameplay jet. On other servers they got normal gameplay only by admins. Got like 8-10 admins which is already 4o4 or 5o5, and to this amount of players ppl connecting with pleasure. And they quickly becoming 12o12 or more.
Ppl brings Ppl

I know reasons like: "not much time", "life", "other games"... but we got it all. Activity is not to sit on server and play 4-5 hours constantly.
Sometimes small things can do big ones. Connect for 2-3 maps, then cya later; doing some break, again 2-3 maps, or just stay spec for some time. Its not much but there is at least some move on server.

Now why i think 10 bots base its too much for now? Coz we lost regs and now its 10 ppl needed to create normal gameplay which is our goal (i think). If we assume that on spec are max 2 ppl always its still 8 ppl needed to get ride of bots. In current situation... still too much.
I think 8 bots, so 4o4 is ok. Even with 2 spec there is 3o3 which i think is already better then botwars. 3o3 is normal gameplay and its fun tbh, ofc if we also assume that we picking small maps to play Playing Minas 3o3 could be... interesting

I dont remember i asked it before or not, iv got to look somewhere on forum. But preventively i ask
Would be nice to do smth that bots are not incuded to the amount of team. I dont know exactly how to say it... xd That bots are only a background.
Example:
When player want to join game and there is 4 on axis side and 3 on allies. But in Allies are 2 ppl and 1 bot and Axis 1 ppl and 3 bots. And the point is to do that, idk, system recognize that there is too many on Allies not in Axis. And when this player pick Axis team then he join and 1 bot automaticly go to allies.
So its like Base are humans and bots are only background.
I dont know is it possible.
Problem is that sometimes when im joining server, there is situation that 5players are playing against 1 player with 4 bots xd And i dont think that is fun for both teams.... well unless this 1 lonely man isnt Yoschi XD Than it isnt fun for thouse poor 5'.

Ahhh yessssss. When we are in some changes discussion to get better and Yoschi's case......

tbc. i guess



Edit:
I forgot.
At the old days, when we had no bots settings, normal thing was that 1 player was waiting some time for other player. When the times comes when awaiting for other player was extended, there was decision to put some fun for thouse who are waiting. Bots arrived on server. But bots were (and still i belive are) only for thouse who are first on server to kill some waiting time.
1.Thats why i also belive 4o4 or even 3o3 bots are enough for thouse who waiting for players
2. Thats why we got now bot server status. Coz base are bot gameplay. Bot-amount; landwarx; landwara. On othere servers when i talked with other admins etc ( i wont say where, and with who ) they all see us as bot-server And that hurts

[pompidom_23 Profile]

I think 8 bots, so 4o4 is ok

I think 4v4 bots is too less... Reason: In the serverlist our server will be listed as '8people online'. And I know much other NQ-servers has 10v10 bots or 15v15 bots. So these servers will be listed higher in the ranking than our server as '20people online' and '30people online'. So people will always choose the higher rankend server in the serverlist... So in my opinion we need to raise this amount of bots to 6v6 or maybe 7v7... So our server will be higher ranked in serverlist and people will be thinking our server is good filled and our server will be more fast filled I would like to know the opinion of everyone on this discussion.

I dont remember i asked it before or not, iv got to look somewhere on forum. But preventively i ask
Would be nice to do smth that bots are not incuded to the amount of team. I dont know exactly how to say it... xd That bots are only a background.
Example:
When player want to join game and there is 4 on axis side and 3 on allies. But in Allies are 2 ppl and 1 bot and Axis 1 ppl and 3 bots. And the point is to do that, idk, system recognize that there is too many on Allies not in Axis. And when this player pick Axis team then he join and 1 bot automaticly go to allies.
So its like Base are humans and bots are only background.
I dont know is it possible.
Problem is that sometimes when im joining server, there is situation that 5players are playing against 1 player with 4 bots xd And i dont think that is fun for both teams.... well unless this 1 lonely man isnt Yoschi XD Than it isnt fun for thouse poor 5'

I get your point. isn't there a way that system recognize the amount of humans on both sides? I'm sure there is a system.

So for me these things need absolutely to change:
1) delete !botwarcommands
2) lower difficulty of bots
3) just start server with 6v6 or 7v7 bots, without possibility to do !botwar.

EDIT on Troyans EDIT ^^:

But bots were (and still i belive are) only for thouse who are first on server to kill some waiting time

Absolutely agree with this!!! Bots are only supposed to be for waiting on other players!! good point troy

.Thats why i also belive 4o4 or even 3o3 bots are enough for thouse who waiting for players

There is some truth in this, but like I said above, the first people need to find our server in serverlist, thats why we need a little bit more bots so our server is higher ranked in serverlist (like i said above). But I would love to know the opinion of the others.

[SpyCow Profile]

If you're going to remove !Botwar command then don't substitute it with a lesser version of !bot-amount 20 or something.
That's what 7vs7 is. Keep it at 5vs5, remove the command, and see what happens. But uhm, didn't you say you couldn't see PS#1 on serverlist?

[Troyan Profile]

I think 4v4 bots is too less... Reason: In the serverlist our server will be listed as '8people online'. And I know much other NQ-servers has 10v10 bots or 15v15 bots. So these servers will be listed higher in the ranking than our server as '20people online' and '30people online

I get ur point Pompi, but on splaterlader for example bots dont count to amount of ppl. Even when there is 4 ppl only and 0 bots on some server then server is listed higher then server which got 30 bots and 2 ppl. Im preaty sure its like that...

[pompidom_23 Profile]

If you're going to remove !Botwar command then don't substitute it with a lesser version of !bot-amount 20 or something.
That's what 7vs7 is. Keep it at 5vs5, remove the command, and see what happens.

OK here you got a point, lets keep it just 5v5 or 6v6 but not lower.

But uhm, didn't you say you couldn't see PS#1 on serverlist?

On serverlist on splatterladder I didn't find PS1.... On ET's serverlist I find it.

I get ur point Pompi, but on splaterlader for example bots dont count to amount of ppl. Even when there is 4 ppl only and 0 bots on some server then server is listed higher then server which got 30 bots and 2 ppl. Im preaty sure its like that...

Yes on splatterladder it's like that. But you guys confuse my post in shoutbox. I just said I couldn't find our server on splatterladder. But when people search a server, they gonna search INGAME, and they don't gonna exit the game for go searching on splatterladder. They go search on serverlist ingame, and ingame the bots count for the ranking in serverlist.

[Ninjadeer]

Sorry Ninja I cannot agree with that. These people who like playing botwar, only connect to our server to play botwar. They don't care about getting server full and they don't care about playing humans vs humans. We are the only server who have this botwar shit and people know that.
Once it is 20bots vs 10 humans, next map we do !kickbots and immediately 3,4, 5 people disconnect and all the shit start again...

There might be some truth in that. But as you say if we simply remove these commands there might be those 3 to 5 players out of 10 who won't visit that often anymore. Currently they may be there daily, how often are you?

Taking something away what players enjoy??? This is exactly my point, we are becoming known as a botwarserver. We really need to get rid of that status.
Really our server is getting killed by these botwars....

So the botwars are worse threath than the fact that the game is already over 10 years old? Let's imagine we removed the possibility for botwar. Suddenly more players would connect? Instead of economic liberalism where free competition creates more whealth (players) we should think this game from merchantilistic point of view, the players are already there, it is all about how we share the cake.
When you buy some beer and you decide to try a new beer, will you completely abandon the one you used to drink before or do you still buy it from time to time?

When I was on an other server last night, there where always 15v15 bots. There were players joining into the game, on some moment there was 7humans(8bots) in axis and 8humans(7bots) in allies. I joined allies and after 1 minute it said 'allies has to much players' and I was putted into axis-side automatically. It's something like our !teams command but than automatically.
Just put 7v7 bots on each team delete this !botwarcommand and let the players come. It works on other servers, why wouldn't it work here?

I bet it wouldn't take too long before someone would start whining that 14 bots are too much . This system sounds interesting, but it might be a part of some other mod or something custom. There might be few things to help with this, but I'm not sure whether they would work on our server or not.

When I play(ed) on ur server I regonize sometimes the bots are sometime pretty hard to kill, we have the bots set on easier level so the so called noobs can get a easy kill..

Yes they tend to do quite nasty headshots from time to time. Then again people like to play botwars with 3 humans against 15 bots or so, I'm not quite sure if it's all about the difficulty.

Anyways the point in my previous post was that instead of forcing people to play in one way or another I'd rather like to see us creating facilities for different kind of gameplay so the change would be more natural. Forcing people into something usually makes them refuse and fight back and that probably isn't what we want. If we aren't ready to be there and play, what good would it be to take something away from those who are?

About people bringing people Troyan had some pretty good points there.

[BigOgr Profile]

I think 8 bots, so 4o4 is ok

I think 4v4 bots is too less... Reason: In the serverlist our server will be listed as '8people online'. And I know much other NQ-servers has 10v10 bots or 15v15 bots. So these servers will be listed higher in the ranking than our server as '20people online' and '30people online'.

Nope. Most serverlists don't count bots as players (it is really easy to distinguish bot from human). So server with 8o8 bots will still be counted as 0 humans and 16 bots.

[pompidom_23 Profile]

So the botwars are worse threath than the fact that the game is already over 10 years old? Let's imagine we removed the possibility for botwar. Suddenly more players would connect? Instead of economic liberalism where free competition creates more whealth (players) we should think this game from merchantilistic point of view, the players are already there, it is all about how we share the cake.
When you buy some beer and you decide to try a new beer, will you completely abandon the one you used to drink before or do you still buy it from time to time?

So basically you say our server is some kind of kindergarten where we pick up all the players who doesn't want to play humans vs humans, and we gonna just let our server die by the knowing the last games where only botwars? OK the botwar brings people to our server but them people just wanna play botwar is that what we need?? NO we need to attract other players who wanna play human vs human.

There might be some truth in that. But as you say if we simply remove these commands there might be those 3 to 5 players out of 10 who won't visit that often anymore. Currently they may be there daily, how often are you?

OK they are much on are server, but once again, are we an kindergarten?? Do we want only the players we want to play botwar?? No we need to change our status and make our server more attractive to players who want to play human vs human and by that creating more regulars.

Nope. Most serverlists don't count bots as players (it is really easy to distinguish bot from human). So server with 8o8 bots will still be counted as 0 humans and 16 bots.

Serverlist ingame DO count the amount of bots. And when people disconnect from a server, they gonna search INGAME for a other server to play on, and they not gonna exit the game to check on splatterladder or whatever for searching another server. They check serverlist ingame.

Well guys for these 1 evening in 5-6 years I joined some other servers. These servers are 'full' of players and it's because the just do it like the basics: No stupid botwars, just some regular bots for the beginning( not to difficult) and attracting people who just wanna play humans vs humans...

[Troyan Profile]

Are there players who look for servers to play 'InGame' ? Dont know, maybe... Personaly i never connect to any server in that way, even when i instaled this game for 1st time...

[Ninjadeer]

So basically you say our server is some kind of kindergarten where we pick up all the players who doesn't want to play humans vs humans, and we gonna just let our server die by the knowing the last games where only botwars? OK the botwar brings people to our server but them people just wanna play botwar is that what we need?? NO we need to attract other players who wanna play human vs human.

No, what I'm saying is that the amount of players in this game is static or even decreasing. If we want more players it won't be enough that we are just like all the other servers, we have to be somehow better than the servers they currently play on.
And attracting them is probably the most difficult phase. It won't be enough to promise this or that kind of gameplay on our server, we have to fullfill our promises. The only way to do that is to be active on server ourselves, if we can do that it doesnt matter whether we have some command or not.

Well guys for these 1 evening in 5-6 years I joined some other servers. These servers are 'full' of players and it's because the just do it like the basics: No stupid botwars, just some regular bots for the beginning( not to difficult) and attracting people who just wanna play humans vs humans...

These servers probably have players as they have learnt that there are other players as well, thats how someone becomes a regular.

[RyukinOmega Profile]

we should have more active members too. i start coming around again

[Smadje Profile]

When we compare our server to other ET servers we should keep somethings in mind. There is quite a big distinction between all the mods running on ET, and from my experience players usually stick to one mod only. Next to that as Ninja mentioned the amount of ET players is decreasing and at most stable.

So in case we want to attract new players, our potential player base is almost only limited to comparable NQ servers.
Nowadays the 'reasonably' filled NQ servers (let's say at least 8 vs can be counted on one hand, and all of them are as good as never full.
The standard NQ-mod player is usually pretty low skilled, loves big and exaggerated ET maps and mostly cares for using easy to use weapons of mass destruction such as rifle and panzer, which are easy to use on good filled servers. Most of these players won't even join an (unfamiliar) server where they are playing a 5 vs 5, unless they have no other choice. I estimate our chances to attract new players very low, even if we manage to have a (no bot) 5 vs 5 going on each evening.

However, a decent 5 vs 5 would at the moment already be quite a step for our server. The only way to reach this is through stimulating member and player activity on the right times of the day, which probably is somewhere between 5-11 in the evening. Personally I belief the only way to reach is to first reach a ratio where it is possibly to play a (non-bot) game with reasonable fun. This amount of players lies somewhere between 4 to 6, and is heavily dependent on the map, bots, and other server settings.
- On very small maps a 2 vs 2 is sort of enjoyable, and small a 3 vs 3, and so on. Theoretically very small (and popular) maps should be the basis for most bigger games.
- A bigger amount of bots could motivate (some) players to join, however as pointed out by others in previous discussions, these players will dissapear when the bots are kicked. A lower amount of bots could possibly attract the same players. No bots at all could attract members/regulars who are motivated to wait for others, and who would like to play a 'real' game. Bot with low skill settings would attract the players who like botwars. Bots with high skills basically attract noone, because getting killed by a bot is always frustrating and no fun.
- Server settings combined with the map and bots also have an influence. Most important is the double jump/ single jump setting as this contributes a lot to how long the maps are played. In games with low amount of players, completing objectives is way easier. When small maps are played with double jumps, attackers can easily progress in the 18 secs spawn time of the defenders, and games are won against the kill/death and damage given/damage received ratios. This is not much fun for defenders, and next to that all the good small maps are finished withing half an hour, decreasing the possibility of attracting new players on them.

In conclusion, I would say that a combination of popular small maps, with either a lot of bots or noone at all, combined with single jump would be our most ideal server settings to create a 5 vs 5 game.. Next to that we should stimulate member/regular activity between 5-11 pm, this can be done through event organization, or maybe some rewards for those who are most active or played most games (getting own psnews song, or something similar).

[SpyCow Profile]

While I wouldn't mind playing a 3vs3, many players on the server don't share my opinion here.
Most (especially "bot-players") believe a 3vs3 is a reason to join spec and wait for others (WHICH WON'T HAPPEN BECAUSE YOU JUST JOINED SPEC, DAMN IT) or disconnect and return later on, when there are more people (WHICH WON'T HAPPEN BECAUSE YOU LEFT, DAMN IT).

Have bots ever helped keep anything alive anyway ... PS#5, #4, #3 - didn't they die despite the rich population of bots?
I don't see the big deal in trying out a new approach. We tried bots and look where that got us! We changed mods.
That helped PS#5 for a while, but once the mystery of Nitmod disappeared, nobody gave a ****.

[pompidom_23 Profile]

While I wouldn't mind playing a 3vs3, many players on the server don't share my opinion here.

I'm with you here, I rather play 3v3 than a stupid botwar.

In conclusion, I would say that a combination of popular small maps, with either a lot of bots or noone at all, combined with single jump would be our most ideal server settings to create a 5 vs 5 game.. Next to that we should stimulate member/regular activity between 5-11 pm, this can be done through event organization, or maybe some rewards for those who are most active or played most games (getting own psnews song, or something similar).

I would keep doublejump, most players like doublejump. Rewarding players for being active? Yeah why not.
But after that all we indeed need to start with more admin activity.

And guys you are really missing my most important point: These botwars.....
It really needs to stop, players come to our server, start a botwar, after that more players join and we get to 8players ingame, then nextmap we kick the bots, but most players disconnect because they only want to play stupid botwar... On this way we never come to the point of normal matches....
I keep saying it we need to delete botwarcommand and just start with a basic amount of bots.....

[Troyan Profile]

In conclusion, I would say that a combination of popular small maps, with either a lot of bots or noone at all, combined with single jump would be our most ideal server settings to create a 5 vs 5 game...

Smth similar like Icy was mentioning not so long ago. Not that im saying Icy had good idea, no no NO... he just stole not bad idea from some1


Pompi, i agree we need to stop botwars. But now its so far and so late that 1 magical thing like delate cmd wont fix issues we got. We need some more expanded plan.
For now im waiting what Ninja can find in Omnibot settings. Its rly important info if there is smth we can do about it.

[Dr Zoidberg Profile]

We don't need people like Dr Zoidberg, who only comes to our server for playing botwar.( Zoidberg I like you very much and hope you will also join our server when its not botwar).

This made me feel less welcome to the server ...and a bit sad to be honest.

Pompi, a good life philosofi is to critize the behavior, and not the person. For next time =)

Seeing how botwar works in practice in the server. It seems that botwars fills the server. When we are few players, we vote if we want to play botwar, which often gets accepted. And when 8-10 people are in, people stop voting for botwar. Yes, I might disapear at this stage. But this still seems to be a win-win situation.

[Bumble Profile]

About more activite.
That there must be more admins (members |PS|)
Change little bit the system that be the more activitie and trusted people get the oppertunity to raise higher.
Im not saying to auto lvl 8 (admintest points).
Im little sick about botwars earlier on is that fun for waiting for more people but bot war with 10 men vs soms bots is boring.
Thats why i was the last months gone for those bot wars.
PS is good server but like pompi said people brimg people.
I agre with this 100% there must be change

[-Drag- Profile]

Well what if we would make it so that we set a certain time and date much like an event and just all come on, play on that time and repeat it every week? Cause the main reason why I am not playing is simply the fact that there is hardly anyone playing. Plus when we had the PS Birthday event I asked my friend who used to play on PS servers to join us. But he was disappointed in the events as he expected more of a normal game with tons of people on.